Episode 16: Kit Lists - The Spine Race Montane

Cathy & Wayne are joined by Montane Sponsored Athlete Debbie Martin-Consani, first woman to cross the finish line of The Spine Race 2022.
Debbie discusses the highs and lows of completing all 268 miles of The Pennine Way in January; the darkness, the bogginess and how much she enjoyed herself as she carried enough equipment to keep herself alive throughout her non-stop 108 hour challenge.
Sponsored by Montane, this podcast ties in with a fantastic competition to win a Montane Spine Jacket from Joe Browns and The Climbers Shop. There's a lot of love for the Spine Jacket among runners - just take a listen and see.....  ***Competition is now closed

Enter the competition: Montane Spine Jacket Competition (mailchi.mp)
Shop the Montane Range:Montane On-Sale | The Climbers Shop And Joe Brown Shops (climbers-shop.com)
Debbie's Spine Race blog: DEBBIE MARTIN-CONSANI (ultrarundmc.com)
Chris Worton's Spine Race blog: Confessions of a long distance runner (chrisjworton.blogspot.com)

Transcript

Wayne
Hi there. This is Outdoor Gear chat. We are on episode 16. And we're talking kit lists for the Spine Race, as sponsored by the lovely people at Montane. I'm joined as always by Cathy. Hello, how are you? 

Cathy
Hi, I'm great Wayne. Thanks very much. I'm Cathy, owner and co Director of The Climbers shop in Ambleside and Joe Browns shops in Snowdonia and we are joined today by a runner who has actually I think one of the coolest hashtags that I've come across Run DMC, Debbie Martin-Consani, who ran for the first time in the spine race in 2020, wrote an extremely humorous blog I might add, I thoroughly enjoyed reading that but then came back in 2022, and won the women's race. So welcome. Well, first of all, congratulations, Debbie. (Thank you.) Welcome. 

Debbie
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate the invite. 

Cathy

So does Wayne, by the way, he's been really looking forward to this, 

Wayne
I am beyond excited. I was I was trying to think about when we first met and I think it was that chat for the Lakeland 50 in the Lakeland 100 when Marco was doing a bit of a chat. 

Debbie
Yeah, I think there was definitely Lakeland involved in it. Yeah, sure. 

Wayne
And then this is completely going off track but I was doing some work for another outdoor brand recently and in Ambleside, one of us nearly got hit by a bus running across the road shouting excitedly. 

Debbie
I was waiting on the bus stop and you went by and I was like: "Waaaaayne". And then we both ran across then we realized that we were in the middle of the road. 

Wayne
There was a double decker in the way yeah. That's a complete aside. I want to get in there with a first insightful, in depth journalistic question. Everyone's asking after the photographs from The Spine, who does your teeth? They're so white it's amazing! And look at your smile.... 

Debbie
Who does my teeth!? Before I came on this call I had like toast and peanut butter and banana and the toast had like seeds in it. And I was like before I press zoom I was checking my teeth! 

Wayne
That's thrown you right off hasn't it? Unusually, in the photographs, your teeth are gleaming even in the ones where your looking a bit more manic. 

Debbie
You know, I can't even remember the name of it...... This is like the most bizarre question I've ever been asked to be honest! ....is it Euthomyl? It's like the pink toothpaste that smells like Germolene. So I always use that, and there was a couple of years ago where they stopped making it and I had to go to like those really dodgy pharmacies, back road pharmacies that still had stock and I would go and buy it up. But yeah, I swear by that stuff. 

Wayne
Excellent. There might be more questions along those lines as we go through! But tell about the Spine Race, though. Because for those who are listening who don't know what it's all about, what is it? Give us a brief.... 

Debbie
Yeah, top line, the winter Spine Race is in January, it is 268 miles along the glorious Pennine Way, which is quite a hostile place, even in the height of summer. And there's various factors and elements that you have to deal with. It's nonstop. So the clock keeps ticking. You've got a week to finish it. You will have all types of weather, the underfoot conditions are treacherous. Yeah, frustrating, at the best of times, and then you have 16 hours of darkness to contend with and self navigation and you have to carry all your kit. So I think even in isolation, any one of those elements, would we make an endurance event quite tough, but when you put them all together, that is the magic of the Spine Race. 

Cathy
Yeah, really interesting word "magic". 

Debbie
I like to put a positive spin on things! 

Cathy
Why would anybody in that in their right minds want to do it? 

Debbie
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Nobody in their right mind would want to do it. I think people just want to do it because the event is based on reputation. You know, people want to do it because it is tough. And even like in the run up to the event, you know, if the weather looks quite favourable than any other race, you'd be like, oh, please no wind I don't want any rain and all that. Whereas in The Spine you feel somewhat cheated if you don't have the full authentic Spine experience. And so yeah, I think it is like really, it is a tough event and you know, the DNF rates speak for themselves and plus the amount of effort that you have to put in to get to the start line. And so yeah, when I first did the race in 2020 I thought it was just going to be a week of absolute misery and there is some, you know, you go into the red quite a lot, and there is some really deep, dark points. But most of it is really good, you know as like you're just on a personal journey, you forget you're in a race, you're not competing with anyone really apart from yourself. And it's kind of one of those things where it's like your head versus your heart. That's all it is, rather than you being in the throes of people round about you. It splits up quite quickly. So you do spend most of it by yourself. So it does feel like a proper personal adventure. And you just have to deal with things on the job. So you can train for as much as you like and you can prep as much as you like. But there's so many things that you will face that you'll never have dealt with before. Like the first year, we had a named storm and there's no way I would even be out on up a hill with a full pack and all my kit in the dark in any storm. So that was one of the things you just have to learn with it and deal with it as you go. And so yeah, I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would do it. But yeah, it takes a special kind of crazy to get you there, that's for sure. I think anyone who's done it will just say I know it sounds a bit woowoo and a bit cliched, but it really does change you as a person. And yeah, it's quite, it's quite amazing. 

Wayne
Quite an experience, I think. Yeah. And just coming back to one of the points there is there's a complete contrast between you as an individual competitor, I think because as far as you being isolated, and everyone at home watching this amazing race panning out, thanks to the tracking, that audience participation bit is just incredible. And all the excitement going on as people are coming into checkpoints and potentially leap frogging everyone and I guess, like Cathy, you were saying you on the safety team a few years ago away, was that right? At Alston?

Cathy
No, not the safety team I just made lasagnes. I don't know how many lasagnes I made at Alston check point. 

Wayne
But when you're engrossed in that you just doing a job as well as you know, to keep the competitors moving. But from an audience perspective, the guys at Open Tracking, they've done an amazing job of creating this thing where people can watch and see what's going on. And I guess we'll come back, we'll come on to the kit list in a minute but there are those conditions that you say that have resulted in like Montane making a specific jacket just for the event. And there's a competition later on isn't there, but what what was on your kit list? Then? What's our kit did you take? 

Debbie
Well, the kit, the mandatory kit list for Spine is quite extensive. (It's seventeen pages!) Yeah. Yeah, very extensive and very specific kit check. I always think like part of the ordeal is getting through kit check because it's so stressful. Like, you really need to do your homework, you can't just turn up with any old kit, which might do and may work for you. But it might not get you through kit check. And if you don't get through kit check, you don't get a race number. And if you're standing there late Saturday afternoon, in Edale you don't really have many options to go and buy stuff as well. So you have to be really meticulous about the kit, you know, you've got to carry it all as well. And you know, I'm not a giant, so I had to be sure that the stuff that I was carrying was super light, unfortunately, that also mean super expensive. And also would save my life should I get stuck up cross fail and storm. And so yeah, I mean the kit; you've got to have normal things like full waterproofs, and then you know base layers and all the standard stuff, but you also need a sleeping bag and a sleeping mat and a waterproof Bivvy and a stove and waterproof mat everything right down to the minute meticulous and I would say I didn't use about 90% of it. I had no intentions of using any of it but obviously because I was okay. But you know, if something had happened, I would have needed that to basically save my life. And so yeah, is quite extensive that is for sure. 

Wayne
Quite a few of my friends that have done the event have said you need to get yourself out of that frame of mind. It's not a race it's an expedition, you know Yeah, you are you are going to do is an expedition and you know, yeah, like you say you need everything to be able to survive so that the safety team can get to you because it's that remote in patches, isn't it? 

Debbie
Yeah, I mean, you’ve got to take in the factor of like, you know, you've got a heavy pack, way more than you would ever use, but also the terrain and the ground that you're moving across is also really slow and arduous like you don't go anywhere fast on the Pennine Way even if you were just in a waist belt. And so there's, there's various factors that you have to take into account, you're not moving very fast. And you know, there's not a whole lot of running going on the Pennine Way, there's a lot of mud, there's a lot of bogs, there's a lot of farmland, you know, those flag stones that have a nice layer of ice and then water on top of it and, you know, a lot of darkness. So you don't have that same trajectory where you're just moving at a speed. So you have to factor in the fact that you probably need extra layers, because you're not moving as fast it is cold , it is dark and you haven't slept for about four nights. And so yeah, you've got to take into account that what you need in your kit on the first day might be different from what you need on the fourth day. And you have to factor in, you know, the weather as well. So some of the days like the first couple of days, there was a lot of snow and ice and rain, whereas later on in the week, it was sunny, and it was beautiful. It was really nice days, but you're really tired. And you're probably not taking in as much calories as well. So that still affects you. So though it might look like shorts and T shirt weather when you're looking at the weather forecast, you know, it's still four or five degrees. And yeah, the fatigue has really kicked in. So you still need to have that warmth because you're not generating enough energy. 

Wayne
And you're exposed as well, isn't it? It's just there is no hiding on the Pennine Way no matter where you are, it's just every time I've been on it it's been grim, it's just been rank. Yeah, yeah. 

Debbie 
Yeah, I'm so thankful, like in the first year that I had the opportunity to go down and spend a few days there because it just gets you in that different mindset, you know, that talk about it's a personal challenge. It's not a race. But I think like I've never been on any kind of terrain where you move that slowly but you're still you know, it still requires a lot of effort. But if you're doing like three miles an hour on the Pennine Way, or in the Spine Race you know, you're right up at the front of the fields, whereas everyone just thinks; oh you gotta be moving at a 9/10 minute mile and you're seriously not anywhere near that! 

Wayne
No no chance. Yeah, no matter how fast you are normally. Yeah, absolutely. 

Cathy
And going back to the like the mental side of things, that's obviously huge as well because I was watching at the checkpoint in between lasagne cooking and there were kit checks as well at checkpoints and there were runners disqualified because they'd come in without a piece, I can't remember what the terminology is but there's kit that you have to carry isn't there as mandatory and I think probably they've just been so tired, they forgot to put it in. And so they got all the way from the Peak District to Alston basically pretty much tip of Cumbria/ Northumberland and were disqualified because they hadn't got that key bit of kit with them, which yeah, you just sort of watch that four o'clock in the morning, somebody being told after coming over Cross Fell, you know, that's, that's it. That's your race over? And it's, ah, yeah, it's a real.... I hadn't really appreciated the mental aspect of it, you know, as an endurance race and having all of those potential penalties and the stress of all those potential penalties as well. Yeah. It was incredible to see. I mean, it really just frankly, cemented my ethos, if anybody ever sees my name on the start line of the Spine Race to perform some kind of intervention, because something very, very bad has happened. 

Debbie
To be fair, Cathy, I also said that, so this is how you get hooked 

Wayne 
Into these events. Yeah, yes. 

Debbie
Yeah, just going on to the kit. I mean, I think it has changed over the years. And the race probably evolves as sorry, the rules probably evolve as the race does. And I think the last few years, they've got like a red, amber, green, or something like that maybe. So there's different time penalties for different kit. So obviously, if you don't have a sleeping bag, that's like almost an instant disqualification. Whereas like, there's other things; I think they appreciate people do drop things accidentally and you know, when your brain is fried and, you know, I spent so much time like faffing at checkpoints because you do get so worried that you don't actually have the kit. But I think this time they do kit checks when you leave the checkpoint when your bag is ready just to make sure that you do have everything when you leave rather than something when you arrive at a checkpoint. So yeah, they make sure all your bag is completely packed and your duffel bag away so you can't go: "oh, oh, I've got that but it's in that bag". So unfortunately, they know that the things that you're likely to forget are going to be buried at the bottom of your rucksack so they'll always ask for something once you've packed it. They do it for everyone and they always choose like sleeping mat or bivvy or something that is not going to be used because they know that’s the things that people would forget, but I don't think anyone would purposely try...... you know, the race organizers are not trying to trick people are catch people out they're doing it because they need people to be safe. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I think they like to add things on every year. Just to mix it up a little bit, this year or something. they've got to have some pooper scooper or something? I don't know. People are posting pictures............ oh like a trowel? a trowel Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think they add things on just to keep it interesting. But yeah, trowelgate seems to be the latest conversation on their facebook page. 

Wayne
Yeah, yeah 'coz they'll be going for minimal trowels. Yeah. Take a tiny titanium trowel with you. So what was your favorite item, then? What was yeah, what was your favourite piece of kit? 

Debbie
Probably the Spine jacket. I know that sounds like the obvious, but it does what it says on the tin. And I had the original spine jacket, which came out a few years ago, which was probably, you know, it was rock solid, nothing was going to get through that jacket. Obviously, it was tested and built specifically for the spine race. And then they superseded that with the fleet jacket, which I also have. But the New Spine jacket, I wax lyrical about this all the time. It's a phenomenal bit of kit. And if you, you know, you've come across it it's so light, and I've tried it out and some really testing conditions. And like, it's bulletproof. Nothing gets through it. But you're not, It's not like boiling a bag. So you're not sweating to death inside it. It's like super, super light. But yeah, it's an amazing bit of kit. I mean, I don't really know the specs and the techie geeky stuff. Wayne you look like like a techie geeky, kind of like........... 

Wayne
I'm not to be honest, no, I was just I was just looking...... 

Debbie
I thought you were going to say micro, something yada, yada. I don't really know, I just know it's a really nice color.

Cathy
It's really interesting you're saying that because colour is always extremely important to how well you function in any endurance race. We all know that. But our Ambleside shop manager, Chris Worton, ran the spine race in 2019. And he's done both the northern and southern challengers as well. So just before we came on air I called him and said, like, what's your favourite piece of kit that you always take with you on each event. And he said exactly the same as you. Without even drawing breath. "That's a really easy one. It's the spine jacket, because of all the lightweight jackets, and there are jackets available that are lighter than the Spine jacket, but because it is made from three layer Gore Active is much more durable." And if you're doing an endurance event, you're always going to be carrying a race pack. And so you need a garment that is going to be able to withstand that just perpetual abrasion of sort of that continual movement, and the added breathability of the Gore Active as well. And its ability to push that moisture away from your body and out into the atmosphere. It just sets it apart, basically. 

Debbie
I mean, I've recommend it to quite a few people as well, and I always feel like people are like, Yeah, you're just a little bit biased, which I probably am, to be honest, but anyone who has gone through and bought it is like, it's just, it's in a league of its own. That is for sure. It's a really great bit of kit. And I'm sure like the updated version of it was only out last year, so I'm not sure what your colleague had used, whether it was the old style one, but the new one, its heads and shoulders above even the original as well. You know, it's really been evolved and developed and yeah, it's, it's brilliant, for sure. Yeah, 

Cathy
I've got the new one. I've been using that. And I've been..... it takes quite a lot for me I'm very long in the tooth, when it comes to performance, waterproofs. I have to say I've been in the industry too long. Well, that's good. I've been really, really impressed with it. It's been super. Yes. 

Wayne
And yeah, I was just gonna say, I think it was developed from the, was it the air or the aero jacket? I had one of those years ago and that was just withstood absolutely everything. Just uh, yeah, like, say a phenomenal piece of kit. And is it? Yeah. Is there anything, any items that you've adapted specifically for the Spine? Debbie, is there anything that you've any any bits of kit that you've sewn stuff on are lopped stuff off? 

Debbie
Yeah, I mean, the Gecko pack. I changed the straps on it. Because the straps are quite thin. I'm sure there's a reason for it. But I felt like they were just a little bit flimsy. And the clips; when you've got called hands, I really struggle with clips and I learned the mistake last year when I was going up, High Cup Nick and I was in the snow and my gloves were soaking wet, and my hands were just like freezing and I left everything too late. And then my head torch went out, and I couldn't get my pack off to get my head torch or gloves and my hands just..... so I find that anything that's small and fidgety, which I guess in any other time, you would want it to be quite small. So I actually just swapped in like the top clips for I think that I bought an Amazon for about five pounds. So it was like your old fashioned rucksack style clips. You know, if you talk about your hill walking packs that used to get like 20-30 years ago, it was quite similar to something like that. So I just lopped in those clips, they're just a little bit more robust. And especially when there's so much weight in your pack. I mean, these packs are obviously designed for running but the weight that's involved and I just felt I just pulled the pack up a little bit higher up on my shoulders and rather than the weight all sinking to the bottom of my back. 

Wayne
Which one did you go for Debbie? Which which which size? Were you running in? Was it the 2020? Yeah, you are the poster girl on the Gecko pack collection unsurprisingly. Yeah. It can only be you Yeah. You can't see your teeth in it. But it's definitely you 

Debbie
I must have missed that camera man. 

Wayne
I think it looks like a summer picture you but on the side. But anyway, yeah, cuz there's a full range isn't like, yeah, I guess. 

Debbie
Yeah, I do have them all from like, right, from the five all the way up. I don't know if you would get everything in the 20 you would need to have like waist pack and various other things. And to be honest, I couldn't be bothered with so many connecting things. I had like a waist belt. I had like the naked waist belt, which I've worn for about three or four years, like daily. I love it. But I mostly just put my phone and it's got a pole attachment on it as well. But just like a couple of bars and my phone because I didn't want my phone exposed to any kind of cold condition. So, if it's at my waist, then it's warm. And um, and yeah, and I put like a couple of battery packs in the back of that. And so I didn't really want to go with like additional waist belts or different attachments. I wanted everything in that pack. And then yeah, no it fitted perfect. But as I say, you know, I had to be spend a small fortune getting everything so small. But yeah, my pack was quite compact, but I saw smaller. So and I don't know how really. 

Wayne
I thought you're gonna say the opposite because I Yeah. I only did the Challenger event, but I had a huge rucksack on my Yeah, it was you know, I think my I had, yeah, it was 20 litres, plus chest pouches and everything as well. So, it's a big, obviously. And I'm like twice the size of you as well. So I am a giant. But yeah, I was gonna say the packs for this event are very, very different from the race vests that you'd use in something like the Lakeland 50, the Lakeland 100 or those shorter events. He says laughing away to himself. And we'll Yeah, we'll have more news on the Lakeland 50 and 100 shortly as well. Actually, we'll have another Podcast coming up. And but yeah, sorry. It's what..... high points and low points. I'm quite conscious of time because we could spend hours talking, couldn't we? But yeah, well, it's been a while. Yeah. What what high points low points have you got of the event? 

Debbie
I think my Yeah, I think going up High Cup Nick on the Tuesday night. I talked about how I got myself there last time and I was a bit of a state and that was..... I was in a bad way coming off High Cup Nick. So when I got there on Tuesday night and the sun was setting and it was just like a beautiful evening, beautiful sky. I was so happy I was in such a good place mentally. And so that was definitely the highest point. I'd also like when I went into the lead on Monday lunchtime, I wasn't prepared for any of that at any point in the race, let alone on Monday lunchtime. So I spent a lot of time like stressing out about it because I hadn't really prepared to be in that position. And so I find myself flapping about it and thinking like overthinking things and almost like changing my race strategy and I think going up High Cup Nick I had to have like a serious chat with myself like I was talking to myself out loud and swearing at myself 

Cathy
Is that not normal? I do that to myself all the time!

Wayne
Yeah, I do that on a 5k let alone on something like that! Yeah. 

Debbie
So yeah, I think that was probably the highest point the lowest point was coming off Cross Fell when I'd only had about 20 minutes sleep and I was on my third night and I was not in a good way I was just utterly exhausted, the fatigue just hit me like a ton of bricks. It was really icy and foggy and trying to navigate in the fog and the ice with a fried brain was not pleasant. But that was when I went into Alston, I need to say "Olston" because I pronounced on a lot of podcasts "Al-ston" and I think the locals were horrified. So, Alston, when I went into there and I had some of their lovely veggie lasagne. And the lasagne is also a highlight of the week and I had a couple of hours sleep there I actually set my alarm for an hour and woke up and fell back asleep and woke up an hour later and I was absolutely raging with myself. I just I needed it to be honest. And yeah, I think everything works out the way it's meant to be so..... 

Wayne
I think that that's the standout thing of events like this for me is sleep I am absolutely in awe of you for that because I am useless I can't function without one night's sleep, you know, let alone six or seven for those who are going that long. It's just yeah how you function on any level as a human being is just beyond me to be honest. 

Debbie
I think it's kind of different though because like I'm a solid eight hours sleep kinda gal. I'm in bed for like 10 o'clock every night I you know, I'm like, fall apart, I stress out if I'm still awake at quarter past ten. And but yeah, it's a different kind of thing because you've got so much adrenaline, you're in an event, you've have no idea what day of the week is. So it's different because you're in that situation. Whereas, you know, there's no way that I would go to sleep for 20 minutes and then wake up feeling great you know. 

Wayne
Wake up, bounce along. Right, only another 100 miles to go. Let's have it.... 

Debbie
Yeah exactly. It is different, it is but it's just I mean it plays with your sleep for like it's only like the last two weeks or something I've kind of got back into sleep pattern because it knocked me for six for like a good two or three weeks afterwards as well. 

Wayne
And now we're talking Yeah, at the point of recording we're at the end of February. So that's a while it's taken you to....that's some serious jet lag, isn't it? Yeah. And what I've got to talk...... I'm leading the conversation somewhere. What did you wear on your hands? It's not another joke. I'm not I'm not going that way. 

Debbie
I wore a kind of a variety of different gloves depending on what the conditions were like. So I don't actually know the name of them. Probably should have looked that up. I'm a big fan of the Prism Mitts. I think they are by far the best gloves that you can get. But um, yeah, I need to be quite cold to wear them. Like I was like, and there's Montane I've got like liner gloves. I can't remember what they're called. I think they're they're super super thin. Yeah, I wear them all the time because sometimes I just need a layer of protection rather than something to keep my hands warm. So I wear them quite a lot and sometimes wear them under gloves. But yeah, the mitts are by far..... considering how compact they are..... 

Wayne 
That was exactly where I wanted to go, so just saying the Prism mitt and the Prism Glove are just like my..... I've got.... Yeah, I bought three or four pairs of them I think for that reason and then I've got Yeah, they were the Extreme mitt. I think they were that I bought, I don't know whether the same now but by yeah, there's a fleece lined one and then like fully waterproof. windproof one sorry, Cathy, go on....... 

Cathy
Yeah, I think that's the Minimus Mitt I think, the Pertex Power Shield yeah which is brilliant, brilliant fabric and they're just ideal to keep the water off. Keep the water out and the wind as well which is certainly for me, my my finger circulation's just diabolical these days.

Debbie
Yeah, I think it's hard when you're using poles as well because you do not have that freedom to get the blood to circulate so your hands do get a little bit colder as well. So yeah, a big fan of the Mitts for sure. 

Wayne
Yeah, and that I think the Prism range is my I just, I've got the coat, the vest, the gilet if you will, the other the mitts, the gloves I think they're just brilliant pieces of kit 

Cathy 

Just as a shout out to Primaloft, because it's Primaloft Silver insulation that's used inside the Prism products, which is made from recycled plastic bottles, so (Oh really?) Yeah. Primaloft have kept about 430 million plastic bottles out of landfill and the sea. So basically they take the bottles, they turn them into little..... grind them down into little pieces and then those little pieces they turn into filaments. And that's what goes into your clothing or your insulation in your gloves. 

Debbie
 Well there you go! We're basically saving the world as well then. That's Phenomenal! I know, what's not to love? So much. All in one pair of gloves. 

Wayne
Exactly. Buy more gloves as a result. So we're just short......we're just over five minutes remaining. So, um, yeah. What, what standout memories have we of 2022? What's the..... is it that moment at High Cup Nick? Or is it the veggie lasagne that was the highlight?

Debbie
Yeah, I think the overall experience, like, I thought it would be tougher to go back the second time around because, like I’ve already got that finish under my belt and I thought it would be harder to pull myself out of those really dark places. Regardless of how well your race is going, you’re going to hit rock bottom numerous times along the way and I thought it would be harder to pull myself out because I would be like because, you know, I’ve done this. What have I got to do. It was actually easier because I found I was more accepting and less frustrated about things that came up. So I think for me, my overall experience was quite joyful, like I was mostly really happy and content the whole time.

Wayne
What?

Cathy
That’s such an alien concept!

Debbie
I know!

Wayne
You wierdo. You massive wierdo. (laughter)

Debbie
(laughter) Thaaanks! I think because like in 2020 when we got hit by that storm and you know, if you use that as a benchmark for life then the fact that you’re going out and it’s a wee bit snowy and it’s a wee bit rainy and there’s a bit of a breeze you know, the fact that your not getting blown of your feet in 80 mile per hour winds is……. So maybe I did use that as the benchmark in which I was kind of comparing events. I mean there was some real cracking low points but overall I really loved it. I absolutely did. I mean the last day when I had the problems with my back I don’t really want to experience that again and I would be quite thankful if I never see Cross Fell ever again.

Wayne
Aaaaah, you’ve ruined you’ve ruined my final question which was about the lean. Is the high point not the photograph of you on an angle like the Leaning Tower of Pisa?

Debbie
No, no that’s really, really not the high point at all. I just like, I know that finishing video and I just can’t watch it….it’s just….

Wayne
It makes you wince doesn’t it? Yeah, yeah

Debbie
I just remember I had that feeling and in my head I was actually standing up straight because I was forcing myself to stand up so….yeah, I don’t even know why it happened and when I look back at the videos and photos and stuff it happened it happened a way before I thought it was happening. So yeah someone pointed it out to me and then it was spotted at a checkpoint and then the medics followed me everywhere because they thought it was like Rabdo and I thought I was having a stroke. And I think it was just mostly the weight of the pack. In the cheviots I kept taking my pack off and lying down and that really relieved it. But yeah it definitely was uncomfortable and it got significantly worse going over the Cheviots. For the last 8 miles I was an absolute mess and I thought I was going to have to DNF with that half a mile to go coming into town. 

Wayne 
Oh no.

Cathy
No.

Debbie
I couldn’t even get up the final little hill, I was in such a state.

Cathy
Oh my word

Debbie
So yeah, it’s kind of like hard to…the last….over the Cheviots but specifically the last 10-15 miles were…. But I knew I could just…I had to just get on with it. Plus you know, you’re out in the middle of nowhere you’ve got no options.

Wayne
Yeah exactly yeah. You might as well just keep going.

Debbie
I think if that had happened the day before that would have been like, game over. But I think….because when it happened, where it happened, I knew I just had to suck it up and get on with it.

Cathy
Yeah. Unreal. And a big shout out as well to the huge amount of organisation and the safety teams and all the volunteers your know all the checkpoint are run by volunteers aren’t they and the energy in them was just astonishing

Debbie 
Absolutely. Phenomenal. It’s just the people are all so kind and they give up so much of their time so nutters like me can do stupid things in the middle of winter.

Cathy
Well it was tremendous to sort of be part of helping people achieve their dreams you know, basically. It was a real hands on. It was a fantastic experience. It was quite traumatic.

Debbie
Yeah, I bet. I saw some feet and I was like; oh my goodness! Dear God!

Cathy
But I am just going to say to everybody listening now; you’re obviously talking with us Debbie, it’s been fantastic having you with us but we are actually running a competition in conjunction with Montane to win…there’s one Men’s Spine Jacket up for grabs and one Women’s Spine Jacket up for grabs and all those details will be available from 7th March on our website at www.climbers-shop.com

Debbie
Great! That’s a great prize.

Wayne
That is a great prize, that is a great prize isn’t it?

Debbie
I would highly recommend the women’s kinda coral colour one ‘coz it goes really nice with my poles and my shoes.

Wayne
But then they’ll need your poles and your shoes as well.

Debbie
Well then they should just buy it while they’re in the shop really.

Cathy
Yes. I like your thinking!

Wayne
Well yeah, quickly, what poles do you use?

Debbie 
Oh I use the Micro Leki whatever they’re called. I’ve used them quite a few times now and they’re quite robust. They’ve been through the wars that’s for sure. They’re great.

Wayne
Okay. Well, thank you very much for joining us. It’s been awesome to have you on. Brilliant.

Debbie
No thank you so much. It’s been really nice to speak to you both and thankyou very much for having me on.

Wayne
Absolute pleasure. And that was Outdoor Gear Chat sponsored by Montane. That was episode 16. Do you want to sign off Cathy

Cathy
Yeah yeah we’ve got…. there’s more information available at our web shop at www.climbers-shop.com and also at our www.joebrownoutdooracademy.com